Thread 717794659

>>717794659 (OP)
>*advertises*
Buy an ad

>verso
>please help me. I don't want this life
>maelle
>please help me. I don't want that life

Verso is not suffering for his own fate in that scene, he is suffering for the fate of his Sister, she's Godlike and "giving" him all the things he wanted, but what he really wants is her to live and not die in the painting.

Verso obviously has very little self-absorbtion, as he willingly, without complaint, walks into oblivion in his ending, so none of it is really about "him".

>>717794659 (OP)
This games feels like a fever dream I had

most "JRPG's don't have such a blindingly dour or horrific ending, so it took alot of balls to have an ending like this, very very artsy shit.

Verso is hands down, one of the best written characters in gaming history.

pure lightning in a bottle.

Verso claims he tried to explain to everyone in the canvas that they weren't real but no one believed him. I can only imagine what strange conviction would keep him from telling Gustave #2 the ugly truth in a world where at least 2 individuals besides Maelle and Verso are in the know

>>717794659 (OP)
>*2 shekels has been deposited in your account*
buy an ad

>>717794659 (OP)
Play the piano, asshole

>>717795264
who says Lune and Ciel know, anymore.

Verso himself, despite his objections, still gets on that stage, and plays the track Maelle, he seems horrified, but resigned, its over, there's nothing he can do to stop it now.

>>717795349
she's dead anyways even in Maelle's ending, once Maelle dies, Renoir destroys the painting immediately, Maelle can make all her friends immortal for years and years, but soon she will die, and so too will they.

>>717795596
I mean, if she gets to die of old age before renoir destroy the painting, they would have been pretty sucessful

Alicia just needed to take breaks, that's all anyone was asking.
Nobody had to die. Verso didn't have to die. Alicia didn't have to be condemned to suffering in reality as a cripple 24/7.
Maelle ending is the bad end, Renoir basically accepts that Aline and Alicia are drug addicts and gives up on them then they OD and die.

>>717794659 (OP)
>Verso’s ending
>Beautiful scene of a family finally beginning to heal from the grief that tore them apart

>Maelle’s ending
>Evil new god mindrapes and puppets around her “friends” why the painting she’s in slowly poisons and kills her


I really thought they were going to make Maelle’s ending less unambiguously evil!

What ending would he have chosen?

>>717794659 (OP)
The ending choice was stupid. Why even give me a choice when Verso is blatantly the correct and better choice? What retards are choosing Maella at the end?

>>717796131
Maelle won't let them age, anon, she won't let fuckin Verso die.

they will be her perfect little dollhouse toy family till Maelle suddenly dies oneday, and then instantly they all cease to exist.

>>717796390
I don't know, he worked so hard, tirelessly, to save his world, and that includes his Sister.

this man invented a whole new form of technology to achieve this, he'd be broken to know it can't be saved, one way or another, the world will end.

>>717796453
She's obviously letting Verso age though?

>>717796390
Probably >>717796196 it would've failed as Alicia never intended to leave the canvas but still

Can someone explain the
>the mask can't hurt me because I am the mask
The line came out of nowhere to me and seemed random but I also may have missed some side shit with that character who I didn't pay much attention to beforehand.

>>717795193
>the two best VAs in the business are both gay

>>717796285
I think if you were still on Maelle's side and somehow not picking her ending out of macabre curiosity, you absolutely deserved to be slapped in the face with anxiety and horror

>>717796378
she's cute in a way that's distracting

>>717796601
no, his hair is naturally white, he dies it.

he just isn't dying it as much

>>717796636
>cope speculation answer
She also guards the truth with lies by pretending to be happy when she's actually incredibly depressed and wants to die and is honest to herself about it
>real answer
Lune and Sciel needed a cool moment before fading into plot irrelevancy

>>717796390
If he saw the damage it was doing to Alicia, I think he'd be on Verso's side. He'd probably be a little uncomfortable but understanding of bringing everyone back after the second gommage but everything up until that, he'd very much be on Maelle's side

>>717796636
The Lune and Sciel ass pulls with the Axoms are pretty much being regarded as just that. They were a little under-written

>>717796390
Probably Verso's, but there's a fairly good chance he could've convinced Alicia to leave. If Gustave was alive the chance of an actual good ending would be way higher.

>>717796431
I think the average person would agree with Verso but I think they included the Maelle option in there for people who really connected with the characters and wanted to see that outcome. As much I loved Esquie and Monoco, Verso's ending was the immediate no-brainer and the only real choice.

It feels like nearly everyone who played the game chose Verso's ending first as their default brain pattern decided on what clearly made sense, and then reloaded to check out Maelle's ending. And then they all go "Wow Jesus Christ that's awful." It's so thematically clear what's the better ending as >>717796285 pointed out that it really is silly that the choice was ever given in the first place.

According to random shit on the internet that I don't have the source for, multiple people on the development team actually prefer Maelle's ending and I have to wonder if their brains ever developed correctly to side with such a blatantly immature ending.

>>717794659 (OP)
Good game, but the story was gay as fuck.

This game reminded me a ton of the Neverending Story, I wonder if it was one of the inspirations

>>717797060
I think they prefer it because its more artistic, which it is, in the horror kind of way.

its also kino as fuck, Verso standing to go to the piano, and his face on the piano, is very well done body language art.

>>717797060
The Maelle ending is one of the coolest vidya endings ever. It's not a surprise OPs pic is perhaps THE defining image of the game and is the one that still gets spammed. The ending doesn't have to be happy sunshine and rainbows to be good.

>>717797240
>The ending doesn't have to be happy sunshine and rainbows to be good.
Yeah but an ending needs to make sense to be good. And choosing Maella makes no sense.

>>717797412
See>>717797081

>>717796390
Considering his motivation was really riding on Maelle surviving, once he learns that shes basically a god able to create worlds, and is dying in her own realm the longer she lingers, he would side with Verso to boot his sister out of the canvas and live her real life.

>>717797471
I don't see how calling the game gay disproves my point of that ending being bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF11KimKdFo
LVDO

>>717797554
The story is gay. The ending is gay. The characters are whiny and gay.
Otherwise it's a great game

I was high as shit when I got to that part and I legit thought that picking Maelle's ending was how you started new game plus because my roasted brain really couldn't come up with any other reason why that was even an option

>>717796390

He wouldn't choose either, he would have found the third path that resolves everything.

That's the crux of his character, Gustave is the path to Life To Dream and instead Verso let him die.

>>717796843
>>717797004
Ok, good to know it wasn't some side conversation I missed. Really felt random when I saw it and was like ok but why

>>717797627
Thats great and all anon, but I'm not sure why you replied to me with that.

>>717797715
It's really one of the most poetic moments in Clair Obscur; Verso letting Gustave get killed because he thought Gustave would do the complete opposite of what Gustave would actually have done. One of his many half-baked assumptions that only set himself further behind

>>717797198
>>717797240
If we're talking about the cinematography of the ending sequence, then yeah sure, the entire final minute is a very intense moment. That said, it's not exactly sunshine and rainbows in the other ending either, and that ending has its own unique beauty to it for displaying the somber grieving of a family going through some shit. There is no perfect happy ending which is the whole point, but I'm definitely going with Verso's ending if I have to choose between two of these bummer outcomes.

>>717797831
The game really has a lot of moments that hit very differently on a replay. Alicia 'waking' into the Canvas is also one of them

>>717794659 (OP)
I've watched all the blind playthrough reactions to my favorite scenes. There are no more left, except some trannies. Why are so many trannies also youtubers? I might just watch them to get my fix

Honestly in the Verso ending Alicia will probably end up killing herself within the year or so.
Forcing her to live as a one eyed burned mute cripple is pretty bad, but having to dump the grief of not only losing her brother Verso but now a whole WORLD of people she grew up with and loved would be overwhelming.

>>717795264
He doesn't know about whether they are real or not any more than the painters themselves do. He thought about it for a long time but couldn't get over the dilemma (does he deserve to have such a bleak existence just because of his "mother"?) and instead just started dooming and ignoring it. Verso's own journal entry is him going schizo over this, telling himself he is real and he deserves to live. The game tells you more than once to not focus on that, that's not the important question about Verso. The question is should he feel guilty for being alive, to which clearly he concludes "yes".

>>717797060
The problem with Verso's ending is that it dooms an entire population of people. Ones whose struggle defined the entirety of Act 1 and 2. It trades the lives of Sciel, Lune and everyone in Lumiere for that of Maelle. Maelle's ending is better for the Dessendre family, no question about it, but that ignores the whole ethical debate surrounding the painted people. The Dessendre family are cruel, fickle gods playing with people's lives as their whim dictates. They're only barely better than Juno and Neptune, in that they don't outright rape and murder people out of vindictiveness.

>>717796196
This, the main catalyst for the choice at the end is the obvious knowledge that Maelle/Alicia is completely hooked on the canvas and will take up Aline's mantle of hanging around until she dies
It's especially dumb because it seems like everything that happened made Alicia into a much more capable paintress, so you'd presume that she could use that expertise to explore other paintings, but instead she's completely hung up on Verso's old canvas. Imagine learning you had the ability to create entire worlds from your imagination and then go live in them if you want to, but then you tunnel vision on the very first one you go into and stay so long that it kills you. What a waste of potential

>>717798723
>but that ignores the whole ethical debate surrounding the painted people
There is no debate.
Souls canonically exist in the game so people with souls obviously take priority over those without souls.

if i were this nigga i wouldve painted a new world and created a harem of 16 year old sluts

>>717794659 (OP)
>*sexes*

>>717796837
It's deliberately thrown into question, that's why I think Maelle's ending is so nice and interesting. Everything about it can be doubted or backed up with evidence. Before the ending cutscene she tells Verso "If you could grow old, could you learn to smile?" suggesting she would let him age normally, which is evidenced by his appearance. But knowing that extra bit of information about Verso's hair can also cast doubt into that. Some other things to question:
>Do Gustave, Sophie etc. retain their memories and know what happened? Do they even know who they used to be?
>If they don't know, do Lune, Sciel, Esquie and Monoco just keep quiet about it?
>Who is the child? Could it really be that Maelle plans to let Verso die but raise a copy of him?
>Does Maelle allow Aline to re-enter the painting? What happens to her afterwards?
The ending is all about giving you pieces, glimpses of things and asking questions to see what you think, while intentionally not giving any answers at all.

>>717795596
Renior spent 67 years in the painting but in the real world is was a few years at most. So in the canvas if Maelle dies of old age there is at least 150 years - 300 years of canvas life left.

>>717798723
they ARE DOOMED NO MATTER WHAT

Maelle's death seals their worlds fate as well.

>>717799043
There's no way it was years. It was like a couple days at most.

What was Clea inside the painting? Do we only see her in the real world or was there a painting version of her I didn't catch?
Also is there an explanation about who the Writers are other than an enemy army?

>>717795349
LuneSister, she's doomed regardless. She was too perfect for this world...

>>717799132
She has a painted version in the Flying Manor. Second hardest superboss in the game

>>717799043
not a few years, it was a few days in the real world.

its not age that kills them, but some intrinsic thing about being in the painting

>>717799132
There is a painted version of her and she's doing nothing useful and offers no context. She's just an extra super boss you can fight.

>>717798737
You are failing to see anything from Alicia's perspective. The point is she lived two lives that were both full of tragedy and a sense of never fitting in, the black sheep who bounces from her real family, to her Lumiere parents, to a foster family, to another foster family, to Gustave, to Lune/Sciel/Verso/Esquie etc. and in the end she finally got the chance to choose for herself, and she chose the family that gave her the most love and most happiness in both of her lives. "Imagine learning you had the ability to create entire worlds from your imagination" Alicia never wanted that, she already found the world she wants to live in, and it all happened randomly, by accident.

>>717799243
>>717799230
Must have missed that superboss

>>717799129
>>717799231
I don't know about the real world but I do know Renior said specifically he had been trapped under the Monolith for 67 years, lines up with Expedition 33 but before that the Canvas existed before the first expeditions for a year in canvas years while Verso was alive plus the big boys Francois and Esquie are supposed to be around 300 years old in canvas age.

>>717799243
>no context
she was painted over by the real clea because she was offended at her portrayal by aline and is the one creating all of the nevrons. She's also the center of Simon's motivation on why he sides with aline to go after renoir, the game literally tells you this

>>717799523
they are that old because Verso painted this painting as a young kid, him and Clea played in it.

in "real time" the entire game takes place over like 4 days, this includes the entire creation of Lumiere and their deaths. by verso ending the painting.

>>717794659 (OP)
Why is the piano man (sing us a song) such a contentious topic on /v/?

>>717799605
>is the one creating all of the nevrons
But the nevrons protect the paintress which is the opposite of what Clea wants.

>>717799669
no they dont

>>717799605
Clea is comically callous and cruel from the position of the people in the painting if given the full context of her actions.

she also seems "done" with the entire thing at the Funeral, its hard to say how much she ever cared about Verso or any of it, too involved in her War.

>>717799695
They kill expeditions that are trying to go after the paintress.

>>717797831
>Verso's battle mechanic is centered around perfectionism.
>Verso constantly does everything wrong, all of the time.

Even a child can understand the needs of few VS the needs of the many.

>>717799732
so you've never wondered why the people killed by nevrons turn into stone rather than flower petals?
clea painted the nevrons to trap the dead expeditioners chroma so it doesnt return to the paintress, weakening her in the process

>>717799669
the paintress they talk of, is Clea.

everything the Nevron's kill denies Aline Chroma.

>>717799732
NTA
Nevrons kill expeditions because those killed by nevrons have their chroma trapped and unable to return to the Paintress, thus weakening her over time.

>>717799791
Why not just let them kill the paintress?

>>717799732
That's because their purpose is to kill the people of the Canvas indiscriminately because Clea thinks this whole parent fight over the Canvas would end if she kills all the people.

>>717799669
The nevrons kill the expeditioners because normally when they die, their chroma returns to aline and re-empowers her, when nevrons kill expeditioners it petrifies their remains and prevents the chroma from returning to aline. Also keep in mind that aline is already weakening over time because of this which is why the gommage happens in the first place

>>717799732
this simply is not the context of whats going on.

Nevron's kill expeditioners because that denies Aline Chroma.

if any Expeditioners ever actually GOT to the Paintress they would be told immediately that Renoir is their enemy, and actually, 1 expedition did (the Naked Muscle one) out of all of them, and they sallied forth to duel Renoir, and they lost, or ran out of time.

>>717799851
>just kill god bro

>>717799851
they wouldn't, the Paintress told the only expedition that talked to them the truth, Renoir is their actual enemy.

>>717799851
Remember what happened to expedition 60?

>>717799835
>the paintress they talk of, is Clea.
Pretty sure she is Aline

>>717796390
>introduce one of the best characters
>kill him off almost immediately and hard replace him with some random dude
yeah no this just pissed me the fuck off more than anything.
The plot was not improved with his sudden death.
They should have kept him through Act 2 and had him interact with Verso in some way, it would have been ludokino, but what can you expect from some chink female writer

It's kinda gay that they went the faggot route and had to have two morally gray endings and not an actual good one.

>>717800123
wrong, lol they answer to Clea, retard.

their entire programing is to make sure Aline doesn't get Chroma.

>>717796431
Depends on the existentiality of the painting as a whole, which the retarded female writer just glossed over.
In Verso's ending you are basically annihilating an entire world of possible sentient beings.

>>717799835
>>717800123
They actually never refer to her as Paintress. They always say Mistress, and when you pick the dialogue options that say Paintress they're like "pain-tress? yes". It's one of the many things that you only really pick up on replays

>>717799875
>Also keep in mind that aline is already weakening over time because of this which is why the gommage happens in the first place
The gommage started happening after expeditioners were dying to nevrons?

>>717800142
that's fuckin life nigga, you make the best with what ya have after you put out the fires of your life.

>>717794659 (OP)
My investment and interest in the story had been waning since after the first hour and was utterly obliterated by the twist, so I just picked the option that made this faggot suffer the most.

>>717800253
No nigga it's a video game where you can interact with the world.

>>717800253
THE POINT OF FICTION IS TO ESCAPE THE HARSH REALITY OF LIFE TO FILL YOU WITH HOPE AND OPTIMISM
Only coddled nepo babies want their fictions to be filled with strife and misery since they cannot comprehend such things in their sheltered lives

>>717800214
>possible sentient beings
That possibility kind of got tossed out once the game introduces that real Verso had a soul. That pretty much leaves the rest as soulless automatons and hurts the argument in favor of them.
Also the whatstheirname speech about coming back but not being the same Noco

>Verso's ending is a no brainer
For selfish people with selfish motivations. You force a teenager who is dealing with guilt to go through it all over again by erasing her brother. The people and civilization that was built within the canvas dies because one dude didn't want to live anymore. His choice was the choice for everyone and he decided to condemn his sister to a life as a crippled burn victim, while using a loosely definded excuse such as "you've got this incredible gift". What? What can she do in the outside world? She can't even speak. Every time she looks in the mirror she is reminded that the one place she felt comfortable in is now forever gone, and she is faced with the reality of her being used as bait which caused everything to go to shit. Maelle's ending is the good one, because while haunting, there is still always the chance that she will temporarily leave the canvas. She could wait until her friends die and make peace with their passing. The only fucked up thing is making Verso immortal.

>>717800403
Absolutely terrible writing, why is everyone pissing and cumming over this shit

>>717796390
Gustave would have sided with Verso, he would never ask Maelle to indulge in some fantasy that was slowly killing her, or ask her to sacrifice herself for the sake of Lumiere. Once he knew the full scope of the world, he would be on Verso's side

>>717800557
You didn't play the game kek
All those "people" and "civilization" were already killed and destroyed by the time the choice comes.

>>717799851
They would have to make it through Immortal Renoir and then somehow find a way to kill the Paintress, which is probably impossible without another Painter on your side

People act as if Maelle will trap herself in the painting like Aline did, all they gotta do is like "Alicia time for dinner, pause your Canvas and come eat" and pull her out, give her specific hours and shit.
Don't treat it like a drug addict who needs her fix, but a moody teenager who wants to play Sims all day.

>>717800667
You didn't play the game. She literally talked about rebuilding everything with Verso, and she can clearly use their chroma to resurrect them as evidenced in her ending.

>>717800905
Also Aline doesn't seem to be in the canvas in her ending, or maybe they just didn't show her which would be a pretty big oversight. But if Renoir saw that his wife is done and his daughter returned every now and then, maybe he wouldn't want to delete the canvas

>>717801029
And the game has an entire moment explaining people can be reincarnated but wouldn't be the same person. You are an idiot. They are all already dead. There is no saving them. The friends she made and adventured with died and all she has left are copies not the same as the original.

>>717801069
Technically it shows her return to the canvas in the final boss fight and we don't see her leave. Maybe the game expects us to assume she stuck around and is still there?

>>717801125
You can't blame him when the "rules" of these painted worlds make no sense and have no consistency

Man the more I think about this game the more I hate it

>>717801212
Granted the rule that copies can't be the same is made very clear and is the core point to the main character Verso. His entire story is that he a copy is not the same as the original Verso.
I'll say both the game rules are poorly made and that guy is an idiot.

>>717801125
>No, it works differently for the Gestrals. It's also explained in the Gestral rebirth conversations, because the Gestrals are creations of Verso, so the rules that apply to them and the Grandis are different to the rules that apply to the humans of this world
https://youtu.be/yB-nPIBW-Ks?t=3094
The Gestral concept of reincarnation probably stems from the family's tradition of getting new dogs and naming them the same (their current dog at the time of Alicia going into the canvas is Monoco the 3rd), which is where child Verso got the concept from. It also explains why Noco (their other dog) was Monoco's "dad" in a previous life but is now his "son"

>>717801212
They make perfect sense. The humans are organic. The first batch was painted by Aline and they evolved from that. You're just too low IQ and fixated on
>they're not le real they're muh sims

>>717800557
>There's a chance she leaves
Yeah that ominous, discordant piano note and that shot of her staring face covered in fucked up paint definitely imply that she's been taking 15 minute breaks to keep herself healthy, fucking moron
The entire subtext of the Act 3 confrontation is that Alicia is addicted and can't help herself, she's doing exactly what Aline did

>>717801125
>And the game has an entire moment explaining people can be reincarnated but wouldn't be the same person.
And you are referring to a moment that was talking about Gestrals, who already defy conventions by being something else entirely and are able to live through the gommage. They can resurrect their lost ones without the power of a painter, so CLEARLY, it's not the same. The only idiot here is you for speaking so assuredly and drawing false equivalencies when no one fucking knows for sure. And clearly, Lune and Sciel are certainly similar enough to the person who gommaged to remember their personality traits and entire life's history. Dumbass.

>>717801394
Devs kind of shitting on painted Verso's motivation there. Also they should have put that in the game there and not make people rely on dev interviews.

>>717794659 (OP)
shit lazy unreal engine slop of a game made by faggots for faggots.
for real, only literal faggots like this game, wish I was joking.

I chose Maelle's ending because I wanted Gustave and Sophie to be happy together. Simple as.

>>717801382
Yeah he is a copy but is he a sentient being?

>>717801843
What made you think Gustave would come back in her ending? I mean you were right and he is there but I had the impression that only gormmaged people could be brought back and Gustave was stuck like those zombie soldiers she used in the final section. What led you to predict that?

>>717801643
I mean the contrary isn't in the game either. I never got the impression that Lune/Sciel weren't themselves when they were repainted because the game made it a point that Alicia gathered their chroma before leaving Lumiere. But we don't know if Gustave or Sophie for example are really them or just poor copies. Of course if Alicia is the only Painter in the Canvas, all the chroma in the world could've very well returned to her and she could've recognized Gustave's and repainted him "as he was", but it's unanswered.

>>717801949
The fact that we see his soul is a separate being from him leads me to say no. Self aware because he recognizes the soul but still a separate being.

>No you see its okay to wipe out the entire world of the Canvas in Verso's ending, cause they aren't REAL people, they're just painted people with no souls!
the lack of empathy these people have sickens me, how do you not feel for the world the game immerses you in?
these people are broken in a fundamental way in their brains.

Why do people pretend this game isn't anime as fuck?

>>717802019
>Gustave's and repainted him "as he was",
You bring up a good point. Ending Gustave and Sophia are together and happy but the two originals in the game are broken up and unable to hold a relationship. Maybe no more doom let them get back together but also maybe they are just painted to be a happier version of themselves.

>>717802179
They literally didn't play it and just read about the plot on Wikipedia, or they're baiting

>>717802179
lol ok hypocrite. guess you yourself just genocided them all when you turned the game off and all the not real video game characters stopped existing

>>717802224
To be fair it's implied that they broke up because Sophie didn't want to bring kids into this doomed world but Gustave wanted them, so if there's no Gommage then there'd be nothing in the way. They're obviously still in love in the prologue

>>717802309
Yes but I think it could go either way. Relationships are usually pretty complicated and removing an excuse of a breakup might not prevent it.
Still my point is only something open to interpretation.

>>717802224
I don't think it was okay to wipe out a world of people who clearly valued their lives -- but Verso and Renoir did that before an alternative could even come up. What they did was wrong, but that doesn't excuse a demiurge making a bunch of cheap copies to bring everyone back

>>717795229
>Verso is hands down, one of the best written characters in gaming history.
>pure lightning in a bottle.
It's funny because some people actually believe this.

>>717802284
>he doesn't know game npcs are real
>probably doesn't even have a going into games machine
lmao at you bro.

>>717802482
Renoir was in the wrong for wiping out the world. I get he didn't want it tempting them for a relapse but his rashness was a mistake.

>>717801968
Because she said that she can bring everyone back (except probably those killed by nevrons) once she seizes all the chroma in the canvas from Renoir. She says she'll bring Sciel's husband back.
>zombie soldiers
Why do you think these are zombie soldiers? I didn't get that impression at all. I don't think that the Paris in Alicia's world only has the Eiffel tower in it and no other buildings just because they threw some thick fog over everything so they'd only have to show the most notable landmark.

What do you think real Renoir's opinion of painted Verso is during the epilogue?
Any different than the beginning of Act 3?

>>717802649
>Why do you think these are zombie soldiers?
Because they are undead people that fight like an army

>>717802767
Which epilogue?

Fastest way to get to lv99? I'm done with everything other than Simon.

>>717802951
dark shores

>>717802482
>>717802636
I'm not sure if it's even a failure of writing or what but I think it's a shame philosophical topics like the sentience of painted people, whether 'repainted' people are the same as the originals, the morality of creating people and the creator's responsibility for them always seem to come up when discussing the ending... and the game doesn't really seem interested in delving very deep in on those topics. Maybe a symptom of the budget running out in Act 3.

>>717802179
Is it important to preserve all conscious life as much as possible?
Everything has to end eventually, doesn't it?
Imagine how many thousands of years Renoir has lived. How many worlds has he created? How many hundreds of thousands of lives?
Do they have rules about creating painting worlds responsibly?
Have you ever stepped on a bug instead of carrying it outside?

>>717802978
is that faster than drafts?

>>717802951
Have you been to Renoir's Drafts yet? Fight the vendor there, it's the fastest way and also gives lumina

>>717797060
Maelle's ending is better if you're literary minded. It's a terrible, awful, irrevocable tragedy. But it's a damn good one. Verso's ending is equally good but more in line with a summer Hollywood blockbuster that let's you breathe easily once the credits roll. The team was obviously made up of talented artsy fartsy people, if they prefer Maelle it's because of thr aesthetic bliss that ending grants the whole story, I doubt anyone actually "agrees" with her.

>>717802810
Oh, sorry, I thought you meant the people in Maelle's ending cinema. Last time I discussed this some anon was going on about how the crowd of people in the opera house were all zombies or whatever.
Gustave was killed my Renoir, not a Nevron, so I assumed he'd be able to be brought back. I assumed that's part of the reason why Renoir was going around slaughtering Expeditioners himself, too, so the Nevrons can't seal their chroma in their bodies.

>>717803068
>>717803069
actually yeah you're right drafts is faster if you can clear the mobs there easily

>>717803069
You van only level 1 character at once but its still faster?

>>717803005
I agree. The moral dilemma of real world people vs painted world people is dampened by it actually be "repainted" people. Is there any reason Maelle couldn't leave, let the world be destroyed and after some years of skill and willpower refinement simply repainted them all over again?

>>717803076
>thr aesthetic bliss that ending grants the whole story
hence >>717794659 (OP)
It works because everything is absolutely awful in-universe.
Unfortunately, a sizable and not easily avoidable portion of the fans actually DO agree with her.

>>717803069
The vendor is the absolute fastest with a Maelle one turn build
You also get a decent amount of lumina if you care

>>717803190
Verso even says she can paint other worlds (which makes me dislike him even more, desu), though it doesn't address whether they'd be the same people. Though if we accept that Sciel and Lune when 'repainted' are still themselves because of the use of their original chroma (and that Maelle can 'feel' their Chroma when stealing it from Renoir), then it does imply that if the original canvas is destroyed that their original selves are lost. It would be more like making a painted copy of Verso in that case.

For that matter, what's stopping Maelle from making a painting with a copy of Gustave in it as a coping mechanism and going down the same route as Aline anyways?

how the fuck is this game still getting discussion, it’s been over three months. Not that it’s a bad thing, game discussion usually fades away after two to three weeks after release

>>717803773
His point is that she should move on and not become like her mother. There's literally nothing stopping her from creating her own Canvas and living a new life there, in moderation of course. He just doesn't want her to succumb to Verso's Canvas.

>>717803973
The ending was made to be endlessly discussed forever.

>>717804127
genius marketing

>>717803973
maellefags are the eternal enemy

If Maelle is wrong, I don't want to be right

>>717803973
Because I just got around to playing and finishing it. All me. I'm why there are threads.

>>717804127
>discussed
insane Maellejunky babble isn't discussion.

>>717795193
i hate video game voice actors. you don't see andy serkis spazzing out like that going on every talk show like he is some big shit. i hope ai replaces them soon.

>>717804079
And his point is moot since it's motivated by his own desire to not exist. The point is that this canvas specifically is the only thing they have left of the real Verso, so creating a new canvas isn't some end all be all solution when Maelle technically grew up in there and has a strong attachment to it. It's not the same.

>>717806639
Maelle is literally God
Verso is just a slave

>>717796453
>>717796837
When the screen goes black, she literally says "if you could grow old, would you find a reason to smile?". He is getting older and will die of old age.

Now if she revives him again, bitchmade

>>717796554
This is why I hate that the meme muscle expedition exists. Atleast let it had been one of the more recent ones, but 60 just almost "winning" is kinda crazy when 33 had to convert lumina from nevrons to power to win.

>>717806882
>and will die of old age
Why would he?

>>717796196
Renoir gives up and trusts her too, if she trusts him she gets out and happily ever after. She refuses to trust him even at the end.

>>717794814
You'd think this entire game is just these two characters, and the ending

Last time I said that, someone replied,"get a new narrative"
But that's really all that's ever discussed.

>>717806947
What was the deal with E32? Why did they attack you in the end run while the rest fought for Alicia?

>>717794659 (OP)
Literally who?

>>717807023
The rest were dead via Nevrons and had chroma lingering inside, and brought back by Alicia. Renoir who controls the canvas chroma, brought the ones he gommage'd back.

We can hand wave that she used everything she had/knew to only be able to bring back Sciel and Lune who were gommaged.

Why is pRenoir so powerful compared to Shitso?

>>717807116
None of the 32s died fighting? I straight missed their entire journal and story and was surprised this single group turned against the 33s.

He deserves it
>Knows the painted family can never die
>Never bothers to look for painted Clea

Don't get why he hates his real family

>>717807171
had sex with aline

>>717806998
Sciel I felt sorry for. She is just a simpleton normie woman who wanted a standard basic life.
Lune is a hilarious Asian stereotype as her entire character is "my parents pushed me to study too much".

>>717807271
>Lune
is also a slut

>>717807173
You're a bit slow, aren't you?

>>717806998
>>717807271
They are underwritten. Them suddenly having big moments with the axons was a poor attempt to do something with them that didn't fit.

>>717807391
What? I don't recall the game ever saying none of E32 died fighting nevrons.

>>717807453
I mean 34s

>>717807453
The 32nd would have been the next expedition to the depart. They got gommaged, which is why Renoir could use their Chroma freely to make zombies.

Did they explain what happens when the number reaches 0?

>>717807597
Guess Maman lives in a world only of nevrons, axons and the painted versions of her family

GO BACK TTO REDDIT FAGS

>>717807171
Aline opened the dev console and tweaked their settings

Why do trannies and blue hairs hate him so much?

>>717807702
Ok, what's your favorite video game anon?

>>717806639
She can one shot Stendhalnuke anything in the game

>>717807396
I don't know what the axon stuff was even about

>>717794659 (OP)
>*suffers in kino*

>>717798723
I might grieve for Lumiere had they not all died at the end of Act 2. Sciel and Lune are brought back, but everybody else is already dead. And while Esquie, Monoco and the rest of the native folk are just as equally alive, they all have a very positive outlook on "death" as Verso had painted them that way.

i only picked the Verso ending for Maelle's sake, i could careless for his suffering

>>717807396
>They are underwritten
Just because people choose not to focus on them does not make them underwritten. Stop blaming the "painter" for a problem that started with the observer.

>>717794659 (OP)
When that moment played on my computer, Verso's graphics looked extremely real. I was so amazed by it until I got jumpscared by Maelle. How did they do it? Was the cinematography? The subtle facial movements? The Unreal 5 engine?
Also, imho I think this ending is more canon than the other. Maelle is a lost cause, and also how can a creation, an illusion, can befeat a creator? A creator always has the upper hand in this.

>The Paintress destroys reality
>"Verso parry it!"

>>717796196
Both endings are the bad end. Verso kills the canvas because he feels sad. Maelle enslaves the canvas because she feels sad. All Maelle had to do was take the deal Renoir had just agreed to, and all Verso had to do was call Maelle out on her insincerity and get the others to back him up without jumping the gun straight to mass murder/suicide. The game ends the way it does because two parties at once decided they were smarter and more important than the entire world they were fighting over. Verso repeats his father's mistakes and Alicia repeats her mother's. None of it needed to happen.
Two retards killing each other for no reason while the entire rest of the game's cast end up as their victims.

>>717798723
This is my view. Once you factor in the fact that people's lives are on the line then any other choice than Maelle's is grossly immoral. There are a few arguments I've seen break down very easily.
>The people in the painting aren't real
They are shown to be thinking and feeling sapient creatures throughout the game. They are as real as the other people in the current world around us.
>The people of Lumiere are dead now and Maelle can't bring them back without them just being copies
Perhaps correct. She could learn, her ending gives the best chance for them to be resurrected. Either way, the Grandis, Gestrals, Sciel and Lune are clearly alive.
>The life people would lead under Goddess-Maelle would be bad
Not necessarily. Whilst Verso is obviously hating life, it is unclear if everyone else is having a bad time. That still does not invalidate trying.
>The canvas will just be destroyed anyway later down the line
Yes, but that does not give a reason to cut lives short. It could also be centuries in the canvas until that occurs.

Ultimately, if you believe Verso's ending is correct then you are someone who ultimately values the self over the collective good. Or worse, disregards other lives entirely.

>>717796390
He wouldn't have made it a choice at all.

>>717814047
>DODGE!!!!
>the expedition is removed from the canvas

>>717799732
All the expeditioners that make it to the paintress (only 60 and 33) then go try to fuck up renoir when they find out the truth (60 immediately, 33 after defeating aline).

>>717814638
This is one of the only lines I don't like in this game, immediately took me out of the game and think the writers are retarded
UHM AKCHUALLY THERE WERE OTHER OPTIONS I JUST CAN'T THINK OF ANY RIGHT NOW BUT THERE WERE

>>717800142
>me no want think
>me want happy happy

>>717806950
He won't, Alicia lets him age under the pretense that maybe it'll make her happy, but she's already going insane in her ending. She'll keep him alive, he's the only reason she wants to stay in the canvas.

>>717814732
Yes.

>>717814706
Anyone with a brain can read between the lines and understand that Verso and Alicia could've convinced Renoir to spare the canvas, if Alicia willingly left and the family could all force Aline to deal with her problems. But even then, babby verso's soul would've been the victim since it no longer wants to paint. And I guess the canvas would've been left in ruin while the family slapped some sense into Aline.

>>717813292
i picked Verso's ending because i didn't want real Verso to have died for nothing, fuck Maelle's feelings

>it's a well-known risk that a painter might get painted over if they're not strong or vigilant enough, and experience a second childhood that feels 100% real to them, traumatizing them and making them a schizo for the rest of their life
>"sure, my less-skilled and emotionally distraught sister, go ahead and jump right into the painting :)"
Why did she do it

>>717806882
she literally revived sciel's husband despite him dying naturally, no one is allowed to die unless the crackhead says so

>>717814790
this is true, in her dying moments it wasn't about lumiere, or gustave, or the group, it was about Verso leaving her. It's so tragic for Verso to have to sacrifice himself for her again

>>717814265
>Once you factor in the fact that people's lives are on the line then any other choice than Maelle's is grossly immoral.
I simply do not believe that Alicia is skilled enough to bring back the others. She couldn't bring back Lune and Sciel, whom she knew very well, without Verso's guidance. You may disagree with me based on what you were presented with, that is your interpretation of the visuals. Ultimately, you are not deciding what happens in Alicia's ending, Alicia is. And Alicia just wants to larp that she didn't get her brother killed.There's not a happy ending.

>>717814930
she knew alicia would be somewhat safe in there, and she still resents her for being the reason why Verso died, i'm guessing she really liked the guy

>>717814963
In Verso's dying moment, she reveals as much as well. From the moment she wakes up as Alicia at the beginning of act 2, her goal is to live a life where her brother didn't die due to her actions.

>Maelle: I always felt like I didn't belong, like there was something I didn't understand that everyone else just GETS
>also Maelle: This was my real life and way better than real life

>>717794814
One wants to die, the other wants to live in a fantasy.

>sister vs brother

how come it's so uncommon? feels unrepresented in media

How do we feel about the reveal? I liked it a lot because it's not just a le twist for the sake of le twist, it pulls away the curtain and makes you reassess the entire world

>>717802224
Man this is grim thinking the happy Gustave and Sophia together in a good relationship aren't even accurate to the original couple who were strongly guided by a troubled relationship. Just happy fake brainwashed copies mind controlled to be happy.

>>717815007
from Maelle's pov how can she not blame herself for her brother's death. I would probably kill myself if my big sister had to sacrifice herself to save my ass, let alone having to live life as a cripple

>>717815195
Do we even have any info on the specifics of the fire? I still don't understand how a 30 year old man managed to carry his little sister out of the fire but died in the process. Seems contrived

>>717815109
I like it. It makes sense and adds to the world rather than take away.

>>717794659 (OP)
>You Can't Always Get What You Want starts playing

>>717815195
I'm not saying she shouldn't blame herself. She needs to face what she did, with her family, so they can heal. Same as Aline. Both of them chose a slow death of delusion over supporting their surviving family through the tragedy.
>>717815259
No, we're simply told that Alicia was told not to interact with the writers, did it anyways, and they used her to start the fire.

>>717815109
the shock value of a twist/reveal is always overvalued in stories. The Red Wedding or the tape in Silent Hill 2 aren't great because of the shock value, but the reassment of retrospective on the events that led to the twist, in fact if you are paying attention most twists reveal themselves to you before they "hit" with you on all levels

>>717815109
>first two acts are you experiencing the world as the painted people do
>third act is you experiencing the world as the painters do
It does maybe lean a bit hard on the "oooh look at this cutscene where mysterious people talk to each other while never mentioning something like 'paint' that would give it away" trope
Personally, I thought the family was just a bunch of Greek gods having fun in the mortal world which is kinda accurate when you think about it

>>717815329
Do we even know what the Writers are?

Clea did nothing wrong and is best girl.

>>717815067
Nothing more tragic than blood relatives fighting to the death and most media is afraid of not having a happy ending. Alicia and Verso want opposite ends. Alicia is willing to enslave him to get it, Verso is willing to (briefly) destroy her and end himself and his whole world to save her.

>>717815361
Nope, intentionally left vague. Reasonable to assume they're mages with books instead of canvases

>>717815361
No, because it's not important. We don't know what the painters are in the context of their world, we simply know they are two opposed factions, in a bloody conflict, both of whom presumably have magical powers. The writers are simply a plot device that kicks off the story of the family and the people in the canvas.

>>717815259
i always thought he died shielding her from most of the fire before they were able to save her, it's why half her body is burned

>>717814972
>There's not a happy ending.
Agreed, it's different shades of shit. At least in Maelle's there's a chance other people survive to lead lives.

>>717815410
feel like Lune would also send a second message saying I NEED COCK

>>717815365
>should I help my nearly-as-powerful-as-mom dad simply bitchslap aline out of the canvas?
>"No!"
>Should I devise a way for my painted creations to kill lumierens quickly and painlessly?
>"No!"
>Should I leave alone my painted simulacrum who is happily in love with another painted human, and resist my bizarre temptation to pointlessly torture them both interminably?
>"No!"
She was just as grief-stricken as the rest of the family but may also have been a psychopath

Daily reminder that every single thing in the entire game is Aline's fault. #1 Painter rule is not to paint facsimiles of real people because it will make you lose your grip on reality. Even painting humans into Verso's world in the first place is iffy, but painting Verso into it is grounds for dismissal from the Painter Union

theres not enough porn on this game, why is that? thoughts?

>>717815414
Yup. Plenty of details to suggest good and bad things happening in either ending. Delightful to have a game that doesn't tell us what to think.
>>717815519
cumbrains don't like good games

>>717815519
All the artists that make the porn keep having the characters they draw beat them up

>>717815487
You're projecting your belief that painted world NPCs are real people
If you accept the fact that they're NPCs, which Clea believes, then there is literally no reason to make make them die painlessly because the pain is programmed by the game maker. It's the equivalent of you crying that a modder adding a new enemy type to Skyrim which fights NPCs didn't instead make a genie that simply dissolves them

>>717815487
She's the only one tending to family business instead of doing heroin in the canvas. They mention they're in a literal war, there's a group actively trying to kill them in the real world and the rest of the family are playing make-believe. Clea is the only one trying to do something.

>>717815490
yeah painting Verso in a canvas that was made with the creativity and passion of Verso with pieces of his soul and conscious in it was a recipe for disaster and incredibly cruel to the fake Verso. I wonder if that's why Verso feels different to other painted things in the canvas

>>717815519
because all the talented game porn makers just stick to witcher, cyberpunk, mass effect, legend of zelda, and final fantasy porn forever

>>717815519
I don't fap to single images or animations of game characters but I did look on rule34 once to see if they have the balls to show Maelle porn since her age is never explicitly stated but very easy to deduce
Anyway, it's all AI slop. I feel terrible for 2D coomers

>>717815365
>Created the Lamplighter to scare her brother when he was a kid
>Creates Nevrons to kill people
>Some Nevrons are imperfect, so she makes another one to kill those off too
>Kills most of Expedition Zero herself
>Paints over the second Clea, giving her a torturous existence where she chooses suicide almost as soon as she can
>Manipulates Simon into becoming her juiced-up lackey and doing her bidding
>Talks smack to her sister constantly, except in the end of Endless Tower
>Abandons Francois
And above all
>She's Parisian

Hot as fuck though.

>>717815519
hdraxx has some really top notch works for Lune but it's only some stills and one really good animation of Verso fucking her

>>717815693
>>Some Nevrons are imperfect, so she makes another one to kill those off too
qrd?
Also I just remembered we never got to fight one of those big ones that eat the terrain and I'm angry about that

>>717795596
>she will eventually die
>therefore it's not worth living for now
Then why haven't (You) killed yourself?

>>717815589
>You're projecting your belief that painted world NPCs are real people
Correct, I believe the purpose of the first two acts was to instill this belief in the players.
>then there is literally no reason to make make them die painlessly because the pain is programmed by the game maker.
There's also literally no reason to impose such cruel fates on Simon and Clea. Those weren't dispassionate acts of expedience. She DOES have feelings about the painted people. Lots of feelings. She's attached to the canvas, she loved Verso and played for countless hours (and probably years of in-canvas time) with him. She also feels she has to keep a stiff upper lip and play the part of the soldier to keep her family alive against the writers. My belief about Clea is that her grief manifested as anger and rage, directed toward whatever enemy was at hand. Writers? We need to focus on the war. Need to weaken aline by killing lumierens? Do it horribly. Mom painted a version of me that's actually in love and happy? Fuck them both, forever.

You'll note that she appealed to painted verso, trying to recruit him, and entrusted him with watching over Maelle/Alicia. She could've just painted over him and made him do whatever she wanted, but didn't. I don't believe for a second that she thinks so little of the painted people.

>>717815590
I agree, and I think her own process of dealing with her grief stopped her from doing the most rational thing: Teaming up with dad to yank mom out by her hair. I think she's using her self-assigned role as warmaster to keep her mind busy. She loved Verso, too.

>>717815708
off-model chest

>>717803973
Make a thread about the civil war in Skyrim and you will get the same thing. People endlessly seething about which side was right.

>>717815693
i liked the reveal at the end of endless tower which actually helped me pick Verso over Maelle in the end.


Maelle could've been playing with Verso and Clea in the painting almost the whole time but she chose not too and enjoyed other things and solitude. She is really just in the painting for Verso and to escape her guilt which duh is obvious but that little detail gives me hope that she will overcome her guilt and trauma

>>717794659 (OP)
You all just really like this scene. I get why, despite being a Versochad, Maelle's ending is visual kino.

>>717815717
The white Nevrons you encounter are imperfect, for one reason or another. Clea is a perfectionist, so she makes another white Nevron to hunt them down and kill them. You can find the latter in an area in the endgame. If you spared the other white Nevrons then this one has a change of heart and gifts you 100 Luminas.

>>717815868
>Maelle could've been playing with Verso and Clea in the painting almost the whole time
I genuinely don't think so, look how little babby verso's soul is. Alicia is way younger than them, Clea probably put aside such childish things before Alicia was old enough to join in.
>She is really just in the painting for Verso and to escape her guilt
This however is spot on. I get picking Alicia's ending because YOU, the player, want to protect the Lumierenes, but anyone who thinks that's Alicia's motivation is delusional.

>>717815861
yeah but your shit looks garbage

>>717815772
>There's also literally no reason to impose such cruel fates on Simon and Clea
Again, anon, there literally is no such thing as cruelty to NPCs. Making Clea paint Nevrons for as long as it takes to depower Aline is a practical way to keep fighting her while you're not in the canvas herself
>she loved Verso and played for countless hours
I loved my dinosaur toys as a kid. I still play-acted that they fought and killed each other, which would have caused those toys immense pain if they were real.
I honestly don't care to debate this because it's a clear "agree to disagree" position, I'm just slightly annoyed whenever people say Clea is cruel to painted people. That's why I brought up the game/modder analogy to make you understand how little the NPCs feelings matter to her. You are of course welcome to disagree and say that their feelings SHOULD matter, I'm simply informing you that Clea is not being intentionally cruel
If you want to focus on her anger, she is being cruel to real-world Alicia all the time

>>717807329
How? She doesn't put out at all unless Verso is pure.

>>717815931
Agreed but we don't have much to crop and use as reaction images.

>>717815772
>Correct, I believe the purpose of the first two acts was to instill this belief in the players.
Act 3 though then turns things on its head by introducing the boy showing that people in the real world have souls and are more than form, mind and character like the painted people. And if a real person dies they cannot be brought back like the painted people. Aline's attempt to repaint Verso fails while Lune etc are a success.
The game presents some fundamental differences between painted and painter people.

>>717815590
>there's a group actively trying to kill them
Yeah, the Writers who created them and their world.
>in the real world
It's not real either. The only real world is ours. Their Paris is just as fictional as Lumiere.

>>717815931
sauce?

>>717816002
The funniest part about the ending is that there's a very clear 50/50 divide between "painted people are real" and "painted people aren't real" which is completely subjective with no correct answer. But the former ending also has Maelle being an absolute fucking retard, making it objectively a bad ending. The writers simply hated Maelle it seems

i want a sequel or prequel to the game where i can play as Renoir, but it's probably for the best to let this IP die with dignity

>>717816025
This is 100% schizo talk but I find that interpretation funny so I'll pretend it's confirmed canon in future threads. Thanks for the shitposting material friend

>>717816063
You can argue that painted people are real or not. But you cannot argue they are the same as non-painted people.

>>717815938
>for as long as it takes
Didn't have to take very long if she did anything about Aline's greatest asset (painted Renoir) or focused on making a bunch of Sprongs that would blow up the expeditioners more quickly, more efficiently, and painlessly. But her priority was torturing a depiction of herself that was happy and in love - a wholly pointless exercise if you believe that your targets cannot be victims of cruelty. She was NOT dealing with this in a cold way. She was very invested.
>I loved my dinosaur toys as a kid. I still play-acted that they fought and killed each other, which would have caused those toys immense pain if they were real.
What of it? Everyone in the family was attached to the canvas, Clea was the only one who refused to admit it.
>If you want to focus on her anger, she is being cruel to real-world Alicia all the time
That she's cruel to things she loves (like her sister) doesn't discourage me from believing she could feel the same way about the canvas.

>>717816025
>It's not real either. The only real world is ours. Their Paris is just as fictional as Lumiere.

>>717816082
I sincerely hope the next game leaves this plot alone entirely. It's finished and was handled excellently.

>>717816025
The Writers are....the video game devs writers

>>717815938
Who are you to decide that other people are NPCs and that their feelings don't matter? The game shows multiple people having lives, thoughts, creative impulses, love and basically all the hallmarks of sapience. There is no evidence that they are any less real just because of the nature of their world.

Clea has clearly been conditioned (from a very young age, as seen in Aline's memories) to not see the people in the paintings as real, so she doesn't even register her actions as immoral. But an action's immorality is independent from the actor's perception of it. Just because Clea doesn't see herself as a bad person doesn't mean that she isn't.

>>717816178
There's a schizo interpretation of the game's plot where the writers are the actual writers of Expedition 33. It's actually a neat idea, and would have cool ramifications like "if the painters, creations of the writers, can fight the writers, why can't the lumierens fight the painters?" Ultimately though there's nothing that supports it being the case and it falls apart since actual game writers would be omnipotent and wouldn't need to use something like trickery and fire to kill Alicia/Verso.

>>717816158
>But her priority was torturing
Wrong, she forced Clea to keep painting Nevrons. That's not torture, that's like Palworld
>focused on making a bunch of Sprongs
She made a whole shitload of world-eating Nevrons. At some point unfortunately the answer becomes "game mechanics"; sorry
Also, Sprong is not more painless, you're grasping. He kills you exactly the same as every other Nevron kills you
>she could feel the same way about the canvas
I'm telling you that cruelty is not an emotion that can apply to painting people since they aren't real to her. Rigging a guy in Garry's Mod to have a funny posture is not cruel even though it would break his every bone if he was real
Anyway I've told you the information and am not gonna spend more posts going in circles. I'm off to work

>>717806998
>You'd think this entire game is just these two characters, and the ending
No matter how good the game is, player unavoidably EATING SHIT as a conclusion of it leaves the impression that severely sours the experience. If anything it's even worse if the rest of the game is good. Those endings turn 8/10 game into 1/10.

>>717816238
>Who are you to decide
Nobody. I am explaining Clea's position, not my own. I simply noticed that anon said she was cruel to NPCs, which simply cannot apply
I do agree with her obviously

>>717816320
>That's not torture,
The very moment painted Clea got a shred of self-control, she fucking killed herself, retard.
>getting blown up by a destruction laser isn't the same as getting chopped up by a gault or a luster
Retard
>since they aren't real to her
And again, retard, I am saying that that is very obviously not the case for her. Back to your cagie, wagie.

>>717816297
>it falls apart since actual game writers would be omnipotent
If you insist on it being the actual game writers then yeah. But if it's just another layer of fake reality and the Painters actually live inside a Manuscript or some shit, then they could very well be fighting their own creators just as the Lumierans fought the Painters.

>>717816362
Read a book nigger, you're not owed a happy ending.

why is the soundtrack so fucking good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjM8zHCGc5U&list=RDyjM8zHCGc5U&start_radio=1

>>717814959
After she gets control, but as said she can just revive people or stop old age. They really brush past the "living with a god" part because it brings up problems of her being able to conjure food, water, supplies and anything. No one needs to get sick or grow old.

>>717816437
Well in that case the writers wouldn't be the actual game writers.

>>717816297
i guess thats kind of neat for bout 12 seconds

>>717816297
Let's assume the schizo theory is true, cause it's fun. Wouldn't it also be true that "fighting" the writers simply means the writers coming into the game world and fighting with NPCs? I assume at least that the painters don't know that their own world is also fake
And the writers don't NEED to do shit like start a fire but it does make for a dramatic story for readers to consume

>>717796390
He would've chosen to save the canvas at all costs.

>>717816515
Yes. That is the point.

>>717816562
Well that interpretation, that the fighters are just toying with them and the painters cannot meaningfully resist them, would remove the interesting implication of the painted lumierens potentially resisting the painters.

>>717816562
>Writer: Hey kid I have a really cool story. What to hear it?
>Alicia: Sure mister
>Writer: Alright first you need to get some rags and paint thinner and some matches

>>717814706
You are an idiot, I'm sorry. The point of that line is that Verso and Alicia are taking away the solutions from them, because Alicia will not leave the canvas under any circumstance. There is no other option, Alicia wants to die in the canvas to stay with her brother. The only way to stop her is total annihilation

>>717816630
>>Writer: Hey kid I have a really cool story. What to hear it?
Anon, the dramatic story I'm talking about is the actual story of the actual game that you actually played
>>717816629
Well the Lumierians resist the painted family, right? Though badly

>>717816465
>Read a book nigger
First, "le miserable ending is ackshully a thinking man choice and a high culture" is a midwit faggot opinion. Demoralizing shit is a weapon. For example, it was notably prominent and promoted in 19th century France, because 19th century France was a defeated and humiliated former world hegemony, with its "friends" lining up to it to kick it while down.
Second, a video game is not a book. Player actively participates in it. Complete failure regardless of player actions feels like an insult to a player.

>>717796390
He would try to find a middle ground solution but i think like Verso he'd know her too well and see what it was doing to her. He would choose to save her, he'd justify it by saying that every person in Lumiere has lived life knowing it will end sooner than later but Maelle has a whole life to live and worlds to create and more people to meet. Gustave would choose Maelle over Lumiere and the canvas if there was no other way.
Honestly Verso fucked himself over by letting Gustave die

playing this game has been one of the highlights of my life and no video game has ever been as memorable

I read lots of fantasy and a lot of best-sellers don't even come close in terms of writing and hype moments

even the ending choices I think are affected if you are playing it as a young kid at the age of maelle who refuses to accept death or as a 33 year old who experienced what grief can do to a family, picking verso is heartbreaking but that's life

>>717816212
agreed
this game is fucking PHENOMENAL


speaking of painting and stuff, if you guys havent seen this movie, check it out Portrait of a Lady on Fire, it's awesome and it's set in belle epoque france and is also kino

>>717816698
>Well the Lumierians resist the painted family, right?
They could only challenge Aline with the help of Renoir, and later could only challenge Renoir with the help of Alicia and Aline.

>>717816696
>There is no other option
Exactly. Which is why that line is fucking retarded, Lune knows damn well there are no other options but is lashing out like a child

>>717816698
>Anon, the dramatic story I'm talking about is the actual story of the actual game that you actually played
>Alicia: Hey... this story isn't going to be one where bad things happen to me
>Writer: Don't worry. The story ends with you as a god surrounded by all your friends.
>Alicia: Really?
>Writer: 50/50 chance at least

>>717816763
Lune does not know this. She believes Alicia will leave after she fixes everything. Even Verso believed her at this point, only realizing she was lying when he saw her talk to her father.

>>717816714
>every game HAS to be the same
>every ending with a sad story HAS to have the same purpose and implications
>OTHER people are midwits!
Yeah, read a fucking book, nigger. Stick to Mario if you can't handle anything but bing bing wahoo.

>>717800137
filtered

>>717816714
My favorite series is the First Law universe by Joe Abercrombie. My second favorite is probably The Witcher. Both heavily feature protagonists who cannot change the world for the better
Deal with it

>>717816824
>STOP offering that tortured child's soul peace and call me Alicia right fucking now, brother.

>>717816817
>Yeah, read a fucking book, nigger
Aristotle's Poetics says 2 out of 3 endings should be a happy one. This game at best has 1 out of 2. It has failed to pass the Aristotle test.

>>717794659 (OP)
how the fuck did they get andy serkis for this

>the most insanely hot and cool looking anime character is not even from an anime
>has 2 childhoods in your path

I also REALLY appreciate how she is immature and not a mary sue, she does dumb shit like get verso killed and stuff

but sexiness aside, the outfits in this game look phenomenally cool man

In retrospect it's pretty funny that Ben Starr was in all the marketing ops but Charlie Cox wasn't. IIRC it wasn't even an intentional hint but just the fact that Cox wasn't allowed to do other media marketing while advertising for capeshit

>>717816824
god this game was kino in the sea of dissapointment that is modern mainstream visual media

>>717796431
>>717797060
>>717797412
I initially sided with Maelle. The Expeditioners didn't die for Verso and Alicia's issues, I didn't come all this way and fight two Renoirs for Verso and Alicia's issues, all of that was done to fucking save Lumiere. Maelle's ending is horrifying, but to be blunt, so is Verso's. After going back and seeing each route to completion I pretty much hate both characters now.

>>717800253
The problem isn't that both endings are tragic, it's that the binary choice is forced at the last minute by the two leads being selfish faggots rather than any kind of unavoidable problem. The rest of the cast doesn't even get to know what's happening until the decision has already been made on their behalf.

>>717801125
A large chunk of Lune and Sciel's character development happens in Act 3, after they've been Gommaged and remade, and they don't appear to have lost any part of their personalities or minds as a result of it. You can advance Verso's relationship with them without losing progress, you can even have some of their conversations unaltered regardless of whether it's before or after the second Gommage. Gestrals lose their old identities upon rebirth, but there's no evidence humans do. Noco forgets he ever knew Monoco upon being reborn. Sciel and Lune do no such thing. The versions in Maelle's ending do seem off but I'd blame that on Maelle being insane, not on full restoration being impossible.

>>717816852
>first law
I read the first trilogy and it was dog shit
>Every character has a catchphrase or two
>Obvious from the moment it happens that Quai was replaced
>Obvious from book 2 that Bayaz was an evil prick
>characters have no arcs
>entirety of book two is a harrowing journey across the world where every five steps hides several deadly threats, book three begins with "anyways we're home"
>logen suddenly has a bunch of extra, even eviler sins that he never mentioned or thought about, black fucking dow of all people morlizes to him, kicking him out and turning his character arc into a circle
>just as bayaz turns jezal's arc into a circle
>and faro's
>interested characters like west and threetrees are underutilized and killed off
There was some neat worldbuilding and Glokta, despite the prose, was a good character, but that was like a 2/10 trilogy.

>>717816924
Not sure if troll or retarded

>>717806998
That's because the ending reduces the entire game to just those two characters.

>>717816924
?
Aristotle said a lot of dumb shit anyways, amazing you managed to still be wrong.

>>717816934
he liked the character

>>717813503
No, Sciel absolutely is underwritten. She could be removed entirely, and her one big moment at the Axon's could easily be given to any other character. Even talking to to her in the camp, out of the 10-12 conversations she has with other characters all of 3 give any idea of who she is and what her backstory is. Not a single conversation gives any clear idea of why she actually joined the expedition; was it because she still has a death wish, or because she doesn't want someone else to suffer the same as she did, or because there was nothing left for her in Lumiere? Who the fuck knows? All we know is, "She sees the truth," because she is good at fighting and not falling for feints (supposedly), lost a child she didn't even know she had when her husband died, and she's happy to sleep around when she's single, and that's it.

>>717816984
>>Every character has a catchphrase or two
Kino
>>Obvious from the moment it happens that Quai was replaced
Good for you
>>Obvious from book 2 that Bayaz was an evil prick
No shit, the whole joke is that the Gandalf equivalent is revealed to be the ultimate villain of the entire world
>>characters have no arcs
That's the point
>>entirety of book two is a harrowing journey across the world where every five steps hides several deadly threats, book three begins with "anyways we're home"
Fuck yeah, if nothing happens, don't write 300 pages of that nothing
>>logen suddenly has a bunch of extra, even eviler sins that he never mentioned or thought about, black fucking dow of all people morlizes to him, kicking him out and turning his character arc into a circle
That's the point. And he never mentioned them cause he was trying to get over them
>>just as bayaz turns jezal's arc into a circle
That's the point
>>and faro's
That's the point
>>interested characters like west and threetrees are underutilized and killed off
Yes, the random heroic characters are just side characters whose heroism doesn't actually solve anything or benefit them. That's the point

Time to reread them again, god I love Abercrombie so much

>>717796390
A "good" end if Gustave lived would have been something like
>Clea and Renoir give power to Gustave for one purpose because he's a sensible man Alicia will actually listen to
>he becomes a Simon-like entity but without the corrupted mind or fucked up body
>if Alicia refuses to leave after some time, he will be the one to always force her out, Renoir entrust him with that task as her father, allowing Gustave to be the "father" within the canvas
>if he doesn't need to use that power because she stops acting crazy, then good
>after Alicia is done living her life in the canvas and seeing everyone pass on naturally, Gustave can be relieved of that power
>The last one to die naturally would be Gustave, having lived a full life and potentially even after going on more adventures with Alicia and the others from time to time
>with everyone she knew now gone, Alicia can finally properly say goodbye to Verso's canvas, and they store it away to honor his memory instead of destroying it
>She can now begin to live in her real world life

The main issue with that kind of ending is that it ties everything sort of nicely, and they were very obviously quadrupling down on family drama and tragedy. It was probably a coincidence and they wrote it to be that way for just shock value, but Gustave dying early on basically put a huge dent on the story because he was the only person in that world (or the real one) that could have talked sense into Alicia, seeing as he was her Father-Brother for so long. He was unironically too good of a guy to be left alive, the story doesn't work with the whole extreme family drama if he's always gonna be there to talk sense into Alicia, you needed a piece of shit like Verso to just fucking lie and be a complete retard and fuck everything up for the drama to get juicy.

>>717816980
>The versions in Maelle's ending do seem off but I'd blame that on Maelle being insane
I agree. They are a bit off. And your other point about
>lost any part of their personalities or minds
I think also ties in here. A huge part of Gustave's personality that we see is him not being able to be with his love Sophie. Happy Gustave in her ending has lost that sad tragic but significant portion of who he is. Which ends with him feeling off.

>>717817096
>everything is shit, nothing interesting happens, and the characters remain unchanged the by journey, and that's the point
Cool, on top of the prose being some of the most grating I've ever encountered, I'm glad that a fan can confirm I was completely right to consider them garbage. Surely The Last Jedi numbers among your favorite moves for all the tropes it subverts
>What if gandalf... Bad? Holy fuck this is high art

>>717816817
The main fundamental characteristic of a midwit is a full servile compliance to peer pressure if a midwit thinks that this pressure comes from someone Smart™. This result in deep dedication to things that are considered an axiom somewhere, even if those are unwarranted to be considered so. For example, "people" who "appreciate" "modern art", because they were told by "experts" how important and valuable it is. Respect and appreciation of senseless misery porn is a completely identical thing, they just were told by some people in perceived positions of intellectual superiority how deep, intellectual and culturally significant it is. A need to appear smart is present, but own thinking ability is not enough to figure things out.

In reality the only people who actually enjoy that shit are irreparably buck broken mentally deficient subhumans, same type that enjoys humiliation cuck porn.

OKAY WERE ALL THE COPYPASTED NPCs BOTH IN LUMIERE AT THE START AND IN THE CROWD IN FRONT OF THE MUSIC HALL INTENTIONAL OR JUST BECAUSE OF A LACK OF BUDGET
IS IT AN EPIC HINT TO THE NATURE OF THE SETTING OR DEV LAZINESS

>>717817061
good morning sir

>>717817082
i thought it was mainly because Sciel is very much a "wears her heart on her sleeve" "lays all her cards on the table" sort of person and that she was the first one to question Verso's motivations so that's why it makes sense as to why she can defeat Verso's axon

>>717817205
>cannot differentiate between works with any similarities - everything sad is bad, regardless of any details of the execution
Yup, midwit.

>>717817082
>>717817253
and that she is the opposite of Verso in alot of ways, even down to gameplay

>>717817235
it's silent hill fog

>>717817198
>What if Gandalf... using his power to enrich himself and make the entire world fight his fights, while also using more worldly methods to spread his influence since magic is leaking from the world?
It's so fucking good

>>717817235
They would've had to go out of their way to make them white, since they already had the models with colored clothing. It was an intentional choice.

>>717802518
He’s right though, Verso is very well written. It’s okay to admit some things made today are good, don’t worry.

>>717795016
it's because it's a frpg, not a jrpg

>>717817382
>describes Saruman
wow how original, bravo joe

>>717802518
he is though

>>717817412
lol frpg is almost frog

>>717817431
So you admit it's not subversion that you hate for no reason other than 4chan saying it's what shitty movies do. It's a kino fantasy trope
Thanks for conceding

>>717817262
>regardless of any details of the execution
There is no good execution in this game. It's a game where the player is tasked to save the world for 99.9% of the playtime, and then in last 3 minutes it is declared that everything the player does is meaningless, saving it is ackshully bad, the "proper" outcome would have been achieved if the events of the game never happened or player have failed at the beginning, and if you dare to try coming through with it, you will eat shit. This writing is an insult.

>NO U
Pathetic faggot.

>>717815365
Clea did so much wrong that she somehow manages to be a strong contender for biggest cunt while barely even showing up in a game that includes two genocide advocates and a hormonal teenager with a god complex. I can't name one thing Clea did right.

At some point, that asian writer chick will have to explain the exact population statistics of Lumiere to me, where Aline's waning power somehow means she can't keep painted people of an exact age around anymore exactly once a year, even though the population is obviously declining even beyond the nevrons eating them

>>717817486
No, I accuse you of not understanding the thing you claim to like. You described saruman and called it a subversion of the gandalf trope, like a retard (also known as joe abercrombie fan)

>>717817487
>but I didn't get what I wanted!
Yup, midwit.

>>717817610
And you agreed with me :)
>>717817198
You already conceded so no more (you)s. Your brain is so underdeveloped that you're still mad about First Law not having a happy ending, presumably years after you read it

>>717816884
I like how child Verso visibly cowers after the sword strike to drive the point home to Maellefags.

>>717817262
>everything sad is bad
During the Great Depression, US government explicitly outlawed production of movies without happy endings, because of impact those would make on public well-being. I'm sure that wasn't the only case of censorship axing attempts to poison population with misery porn. At the same time, you can observe defeated and subjugated populations, for example the population of USSR, being fed it in serious amounts.
Powers that be understand the impact of a media that person consumes, and regulate it to fit their goals. That smart academia guy who explain you how it's high culture when everything is full of depression and shit, he did so with ulterior motive, or perhaps, whoever trained him had ulterior motive.

>>717817546
There's fewer people to protect, but Renoir also gets more powerful with each gommage. It just werks.

>>717817665
>Accusing you of liking something just because you think it's a subversion is the same as agreeing that it's a subversion
Kek, my fault for arguing with someone who enjoyed that trash. Enjoy your night anon.

>>717813546
I was the same way, actually. I was leaning in examining the detail of his face and grimace when it suddenly jumpscared the fuck out of me lol. As to why, probably lighting rendering all the hairs on his head and in his beard convincingly.

>>717817650
>Doesn't even attempt to explain why the entire narrative suddenly doing 180 isn't atrocious shit writing.
>NO U
Concession accepted fagboy. Go jack off to your cuck porn.

>>717816884
maelle had really lost it at this point

>>717817679
>There have been cases of governments mass producing sad content to manipulate populations
>Therefore this indie game made by a small company cannot have a sad ending
Yup, midwit.

>>717798914
That's probably what happened when he was himself trapped in a painting as a young man before his wife dragged him out.

we should get dlcs that take place before the end of the game, feels like you could do some more stuff within the canvas with the group

>>717798914
he did mention that he has been stuck in paintings before

fuck id be mad if someone pulled me out

Waifuslop garbage for coomer retards

>>717817669
>>717817790
>>717816884

>character assassination is le good

yup projecting incels that hate women

>>717818037
Whats the point? They cant improve the story without changing the ending.

>>717818037
I don't think that the game should have DLC. It's a perfect package as is, and there's plenty of optional act 3 content that fills the space that the DLC would occupy.
That said, there are some rather ominous-looking red paintings and structure in the Endless Tower. I can imagine they put those in to give them a way to add DLC easily.

>>717819846
>>717820987
i dont want to say goodbye to this world and it's characters

>>717815627
Fucking this, meanwhile tendies spam like 4 totally not controversy threads per Nintendo ip

tell me with a straight face this wasn't the moment Verso had already made up his mind to betray Maelle first chance he got

>love FFX
>love Sekiro
This game was specifically made for me. The pretty neat story that leads to arguments is just a bonus
Only complaing I have is the difficulty scaling for the main story content, it's like they wanted to make sure even utter retards can beat it

>>717799754
>Verso's battle mechanic is centered around perfectionism.
????
his style literally always makes him lose life to the verge of death,he wants to kill himself even in gameplay

>>717821519
It wasn't. He already made up his mind to do that the first time he saw her.

>>717821519
Verso is a liar, he was never going to let Maelle bring Lumiere back and let Maelle kill herself just so she can spend time with him and keep him alive for eternity, he was tired.

>>717817719
It's always projection with you types. You can't handle the idea that someone might like a twist because it fits the internal logic of the world instead of just being "le subversive." Not every deviation from your Saturday morning cartoon plots is a personal attack, anon. Get better taste or stay mad.

>>717797060
I chose Verso's ending first, but every crank of my being told me to choose Maelle's. Because, just like her, I think I can only have a good life in a fantasy.

>>717815046
It's not a fantasy though it's real.

>>717799791
Anything that Renoir kills turns into flower petals though

>>717822000
>Verso is a liar
and he's still the most honest person in the expedition

>>717816495
Because the people who made it actuall cared. I recommend checking out the behind the music video on their channel to see how it came together.

It is such a stark contrast to the Demon Souls Remake OST or the Lion King 2019 OST:
In both cases they had shittons of money, a whole orcherstra and a concert hall to create music.
But in Lion Kings case noone gave a shit and they remade the same music but worse.
And in Demon Souls Remake case they did not care one iota for what the original OST was trying to achieve and created generic movieslop epic music that all sounds the same.

If you compare this to Clair Obscur. They had a small studio with a handful of people working on it in comparison. But they really cared. And it shows.

>>717823538
The funniest part to me is that Testard didn't even say he checked the story or anything, he just looked at concept art of the characters

>>717823618
a picture is worth a thousand words.

>>717823618
this game was a lightning in a bottle situation wasn't it

>>717823794
Pretty much. The sad thing is that it was lightning in the bottle cause it had a dev team that CARED. Which is almost unheard of nowadays

>>717823794
We will know if their next game sucks ass

>>717823886
>it had a dev team that CARED
yeah obviously but beyond that i don't think they could recreate this success

Shit """game""" made for the bg3 audience

>>717824016
you are brown

>>717796390
he wouldn't give a fuck about the painters family he just wants lumiere saved from the gommage

>>717815627
>Spam the same thread with the same photo with the same tagline 4 weeks in a row
>Sperged out everytime with that photo when someone rightly pointed out
kek, I accept your concession

>>717816984
> and Glokta, despite the prose, was a good character
This anon has taste.

>>717824815
>tendie comes back to seethe some more
lmao

>>717796390
He turned the power of the painters against them. He absolutely could have saved both the painting and Maelle, if only he had learned the true nature of the world and its mechanics.
This is why Verso let him die. Gustave had potential to be as powerful as Renoir and Aline.

>>717817546
I thought clea was taking the chroma from each gommage to paint more nevrons. Aline was running on fumes.

>Clea is near twice Alicia's age
>Complains that Alicia never played in the canvas with Verso and Clea
ehh

>>717828290
In French, "play" is a euphemism for lesbian sex

>>717794659 (OP)
Good, you deserve it faggot.

>>717795193
How long will she be able to keep up that baby voice?

>people itt treat painted people as real people
ISHYGDDT

>>717796431
I like the seething from chat when a strimmer doesn't pick the ending they want

>>717798151
post 'em

>>717795016
It's just the ending of Final Fantasy X though. And Xenoblade 3. And many other JRPGs. The endings aren't even close to "horrific". You are just a baby and this was baby's first JRPG for you.

>>717796431
>>717797060
>>717803076
Sheep detected.

The game's endings are an interesting social experiment. The devs are deliberately testing how many people are weak-minded and sheep-like enough to choose the ending where the villain wins, everyone dies and no one is happy, if that ending is presented in a good light via clever cinematography. Meanwhile the ending where the villain loses and everyone lives happily ever after is presented in an unnerving light.

As it turns out, about half of the playerbase really does lack critical reasoning to such an extent that they choose the evil ending and believe they are choosing the good ending, thanks to the emotional manipulation by the devs. This shows how we get stuff like the Nazis. People like you who can be manipulated this easily.

>>717828984
They are as real as the outside people. The people on the outside are just creations of the Writers anyway.

>>717821659
>Only complaing I have is the difficulty scaling for the main story content, it's like they wanted to make sure even utter retards can beat it
To be fair, same can be said about FFX, I remember making a special rule as a kid to only use Aeons if I already died to enemy 3+ times because I found them super broken. Also while I like FS 'git gud one difficulty' approach, I understand why they went with various difficulties to reach wider audience, as they were basicaly 'just another random game from noname devs'

>>717830297
>creations of the Writers
was this established in the lore? if true, that means Clea is crazy going on war with them.

>>717796671
>theatre kids are gay
woah no way

>>717830757
FF is always easy, but E33 is truly braindead. FFX bosses also often had mechanics so just nuking with aeons wasn't quite enough
I did play E33 on the hardest difficulty but it seemed to make almost no difference. I think they patched in difficulties actually affecting parry timings recently
Also just to be clear, the endgame is perfectly tuned, it's only the main game + Reacher that's laughably easy. I think it was at the forgotten battlefield where I realized none of the enemies pose any threat, and it stayed that way until the ending

>>717821659
>>717831248
The game is highly challenging and intense if you are an intelligent person who knows to curate their own experience.

Unfortunately, from what I have seen and heard, 99.9% of players are not.

I was level 30 at the end of act 2. Looking at a few streams of the game, even by supposedly smart streamers like CohhCarnage, they are all twice my level at that point if not more, and they are brainlessly brute forcing every fight and basically skipping all the gameplay of the entire game. It's utter retardation, and you're obviously another retard.

I can't even imagine being so stupid that you keep fighting every enemy you come across and leveling up more and more even as the game is getting easier and easier, while simultaneously wanting the game to be harder. It's utter sheep behaviour and it somehow accounts for almost every player. I clearly don't belong on the same planet as you "people".

Their fantasy France setting sounds more interesting tbqh, the writer probably have similar powers but use books insteads.
Do they usually summon their creations from books and canvases to fight it out? Would be pretty kino if so.

>>717816763
funny u say this because u are just as autistic as Lune and u are lashing out like a child

>>717797060
>multiple people on the development team actually prefer Maelle's ending and I have to wonder if their brains ever developed correctly to side with such a blatantly immature ending.
Because the dev team knows every character is fake, inside canvas or not, and that gives merit to the maelle ending for being contrarian/subverting expectation.

>>717794659 (OP)
Can't wait for whatever expanded universe they make out of this to completely fuck up the story and the universe with inconsistencies and retarded OCs

>>717796390
I think he'd side with Verso after a lot of agonising. He seemed to me to priorise Maelle over the mission. The mission is for Lumiere so he prioritises her over Lumiere.
He'll just need to be shown the damage being in the canvas is doing to her.

>family is so fucking dysfunctional a literal soulless AI creation of their dead son had to save their ass from themselves
Maybe these so called Writers were right? Should all Painters go into the oven if they're as insane as the Dessendre family?

>>717796390
If Verso saved Gustave they would kiss.

>>717815365
Clea did everything right. Had she followed in the footsteps of her parents she would've been swept up in their drama and be just as useless as they are. She gives Alicia advice albeit hard love style but is fair and even acknowledges Alicia when she does something clever, like hiding Verso's portrait.

Is the Lune's Bush poster here yet?

>>717794659 (OP)
>*unreal engine stutters*

Sciel LOVES smelly, hairy, uncut Verso cock

>>717816063
No there isn't because painted Verso himself is, well, painted, so if you agree with him and his motives you also concede that 1. painted people ARE "real", and 2. they have free will

>>717801684
This.

>>717832957
MAXIMUM DAMAGE

>2 endings
>Verso's ending, AKA logical and correct, AKA men's choice
>Maelle's ending, AKA emotional and incorrect, AKA women's choice

>>717824815
Kys Nintendo jeet

>Doesn't care about Noco in Verso's ending
>Doesn't invite Emma to the concert in her ending
What is Alicia's fucking problem?

>>717817679
Americans just aren't artistically inclined. They are literally a retarded people.

>>717796196
You're forgetting about Aline, who was a problem even before Alicia got hooked onto the painting.

>>717794659 (OP)
This is one of those weird cases where a game feels so high quality that I can't get the motivation to play it, i feel daunted as if I'm picking up a classic lit book. I got to where you and Luna fight some guardians. The story seems like a big one. Does it live up to the delivery of the prologue?

Who's to say in the Maelle ending she either comes to terms with real Verso's death and goes home, or that her family of far superior Painters aren't going to come in and rip her out?

>>717805651
Unironically I respect VAs more than Hollywood slops.
Not that I play a lot of voiced games in the first place, though.

>>717836150
>or that her family of far superior Painters aren't going to come in and rip her out?
Renoir is never going to let Alicia truly kill herself in the painting.
He'll be back to retrieve her, just give it time.

>>717834561
It's just a video game man, you'll know pretty early on whether or not you're enjoying yourself.

>>717836150
>Who's to say in the Maelle ending she either comes to terms with real Verso's death and goes home, or that her family of far superior Painters aren't going to come in and rip her out?
No one, it's up to your interpretation. I feel it's incredibly likely that Renoir will come pull her out, but others feel it's similarly likely Alicia will just kill herself in Verso's ending, which I disagree with. It's left vague on purpose.

>>717797060
I have seen a youtuber who's a strong verso supporter, then later on play a different game and sides with the antagonist who can potentially "true revive" dead loved ones.

>>717814132
All of the Dessendres are fucking shitheads and the people of the canvas had to suffer because of it.

>>717838187
It was incredibly irresponsible of Aline to create them, truly a woman moment. The gestrals and the Grandis are retards but the Lumierens seem to have fully sophisticated sapience and are capable of understanding their existence and all the existential dread that comes with it.

>>717795016
Huh, FFX ended with Tidus vanishing because he wasn't real but a Dream that ended when Sin died.

>>717798914
this so much, except busty anime milfs

>>717830238
A lot of people sympathize with the evil man because he's charismatic and handsome. Very sad.

>>717795016
>blindingly dour or horrific
aliciafag detected

>>717830238
every time

>>717838537
idwtl

why does this guy seem like a smug asshole?

>>717839145
he's french

>>717838537
Yeah, original Renoir even admits his wife's cruelty and offers his family's apology. Looking at his art, his creations don't seem to display sapience. The closest is Alicia's axon and its helper, but they seem more like dogs. He still genocides literally everyone but to be honest, I would be tempted to do the same in his shoes if it was a choice between my wife vs the world.

>>717839145
Because you wanted your preferred ending to be happier and are bitter about it.

>>717839239
Renoir is a more honest version of Clea, IMO. He describes her as as the most similar to him. They both do horrible things to the painted people, but Renoir acknowledges that they're horrible things and feels remorse.

>>717838937
Even there, Renoir and Aline are comforting eachother - NOT any of their children. In fact, Clea leaves early and Alicia sees her old friends and family, she sees them alone, indicating that she still grieves alone.

>>717838537
>>717839239
How is it Alines fault that Clea and Renoir murders and tortures people she created? Absolutely psycho arguments.

>>717839563
Shouldn't have made them mortal and feel pain in the first place.

>>717830757
>To be fair, same can be said about FFX, I remember making a special rule as a kid to only use Aeons if I already died to enemy 3+ times because I found them super broken.
You can beat all the bosses in the games where Yuna is available by spamming eons overdrive one after the other as soon as you have Ixion.

>>717839639
Life is harsh but worth living to most people, if you're so depressed about life you think it would be better to not have existed that is just representative of you. The people of Lumiere definitely seems to disagree since they're fighting hard for their survival.

Aline creating them was a gift.

There's something about the fags who's only argument for verso's ending is making her "properly" deal with grief that's annoys me. I can almost hear the "umm sweety let's unpack this" from a condescending redditor trying to give life advice.

>>717839474
That's certainly an interpretation.

>>717839656
Overdrive spam in general was strong, just farm the meters for everyone before a fight and then go in.

>>717839563
>Creating an entire race of sentient people in a fucking canvas, while your thinking is clouded from grief, solely for the purpose of slowly killing yourself under the delusion that your son is still alive
>Yeah what's wrong with that? Psycho!
Aliciafags will go to any length.

>>717839858
Not facing the facts and dealing with her problems was killing Aline and will kill Alicia. It's just a fact of the game.

>>717839735
That's not an argument why as to why she made them mortal. Was it really necessary that they can die? Starve? Drown? Is it not her fault that Gustave lost an arm because she didn't create them with the ability to restore lost limbs?

>>717839953
You might live in a simulation(canvas) right now, created by some grieving mother who just wanted to simulate a world where her kids didn't die. I don't see the issue.

>>717840143
I'm not saying there's no reason for the Lumierens to exist, I'm saying it was highly irresponsible for Aline to create life in such a precarious position. If it's such a gift, you should be arguing that the painters have a responsibility to create as many canvases populated with as many people as possible.

>>717840120
I don't think immortality and immunity to any harm makes life better, but if you think it does sure you could hold that against her.

Why was the audio mixing for Gustave's "For those who come after" battlecry so fucking bad?

>>717840120
Correct, that other anon saying their existence is a "gift" is ignoring the fact that the Lumieren's only purpose to Aline is verisimilitude for her fantasy that Verso never died. Just like Alicia, that some people don't see their identical motivations and actions is insane.

>>717839953
>That pic
Not that anon but whilst we align on Alicia being brazen, that doesn't excuse Verso's ending. Once you create life, you have a duty of care over it. And just because you want to see your wife or kill yourself doesn't mean you get to wipe out living creatures either.
Every single member of the family, including their painted versions, is a selfish twat. Writers were right all along - burn them all.

the only way for good ending is for writers to successfully off Aline then her fractured soul will restore Luminere in place of tired verso. And Aline will kick maelle out because she doesn't like her anyway.

>>717832152
I still have faith that they won't make sequels. These are Final Fantasy fans, after all. They know a new installment doesn't necessarily have to be related to the previous.

>>717840372
>Once you create life, you have a duty of care over it
Neither verso nor renoir created the life.
>want to see your wife
Want to save your wife*
>or kill yourself
Save your mom and sister*
Your trivializing of the motivations of characters you disagree with leaves me uninterested in continuing this conversation. I do agree with you on TPD total painter death. Gas the painters art war now.

>>717840274
some kids born from irresponsible mother may still see their lives as gift, likely not in the majority though

>>717805651
This level of unprovoked embitterment over literally nothing is tantamount to severe mental illness.

>>717840283
Losing an arm makes life worse. Your husband drowning makes life worse. Miscarriage makes your life and that of your unborn baby worse.

>>717836402
Its not left vague. Verso clearly points out before their duel that Maelle lied to Renoir and Renoir knew it, she has no intention of being responsible and taking even a small break from the canvas. Then there is an ominous spooky close up on her face that implies she is staying too long and dying. Her ending scene takes place possibly years later because Sciel's son has grown to what looks like 6 or 7.
Without these cues, yes it could be argued that Maelle's ending is actually the good one, because she might still come to her senses, learn to balance her time between worlds, and maybe even convince Verso to not be suicidal. He can remain as a family member, getting regular updates from the family, he just doesn't have a physical body in the real world.
But the game seems to go out of its way to imply that Maelle dies. Which would almost certainly result in Renoir torching the canvas after A&A finally kick it.
Its nice to see some anons on here being hopeful though.

>>717840535
Yes, but you can't have good without evil, joy without sadness etc. That's life.

>>717834561
The game doesn't actually feel super "high quality" for most of it since it's an AA production and there's plenty of janky aspects. What really shines is the story so just enjoy that for what it is without overinflated expectations.

>>717840541
I agree with everything you said, that's not what I was referring to with "it was left vague." I meant the implications of what we see, and what will happen after, are left vague. A lot of anons speak very definitively on what WILL happen in either ending because they're so emotionally invested in their ending being the good one.

>Ghost Gustave wants Maelle to kill herself in the Verso ending
The tardiest of tards believe this

>>717840491
Alright, I can admit an element of reduction, but saving your wife/mother/sister/whoever still does not excuse wiping out multiple people.
There is an argument that the max Verso would be killing is two - Sciel and Lune, but I would argue that the Grandis, Gestrals and Esquie are still sapient.
Also don't get it twisted, Verso's primary motivation is suicide born of depression. Yes he wants to save his mother and sister and uses this argument to try and convince Maelle, but he mainly cannot reconcile his origins and past actions, and so wants to end it all. He too is primarily motivated by self.

>>717840618
Stop the retarded platitudes. Being able to lose your limbs is not why you feel joy. Being able to drown is not required for a good life.

>>717840967
I think it is. If we were completely safe from harm and suffering then we would not enjoy life.

>>717801189
She does leave. She fades after the fight when she has that scene of her giant Paintress thing touching Renoir's hand. Then Renoir shows us her suffering IRL and Verso goes after her and ends up with babby Verso's soul.

It's time to stop painting

>>717840541
She lies because she never wants to leave, but that doesn't mean she could never change her mind. The reason she can't ever change her mind is because the moment she leaves Renoir will destroy the canvas and murder everyone in it. She would have to stay and die in there to keep everyone in there safe.

>>717840541
>>717840691
I thought her "Painter eyes" were because she was using her powers to compel Verso to play?

>>717840920
> but saving your wife/mother/sister/whoever still does not excuse wiping out multiple people.
I fully believe most people would, to save an immediate family member, press a button they were told kills multiple strangers. Obviously Renoir's actions are MUCH more extreme than that, but if both sides weren't flawed and either solution was obvious, it wouldn't be interesting.
>There is an argument that the max Verso would be killing is two - Sciel and Lune, but I would argue that the Grandis, Gestrals and Esquie are still sapient.
I agree with you, but besides Monoco, all of the Gestrals and the Grandis seem like retards that aren't really capable of giving a fuck. They were, after all, painted by babby Verso. Esquie and Monoco even support and help Verso, backing him up right to the very end. Sciel and Lune are, undeniably, tragic victims.
> Verso's primary motivation is suicide born of depression.
I don't agree, but certainly acknowledge it as one of his motivations. If it were his primary one, he would've just let Renoir kill him at the beginning of act III.

>>717841204
Nope

>>717841007
I'm very sorry that you can only enjoy life if there is suffering. I think this is a very sick mindset.

>>717841204
It's just verso hallucinating.

>>717841153
True. Although I think she stays more because she enjoys the world and feels like her life is better than in Paris, rather than a desire to preserve lives.

>>717794659 (OP)
https://youtu.be/APOv1zZ6WiE?si=flqwpo-gFrTxABZ7

>>717841358
I think that's true too, she wants to stay. But if she could maybe she would have left for a while as she felt she was dying outside the canvas and then came back? But that won't be an option with Renoir waiting for her to do that.

>>717841204
My interpretation: Yes, that's how it starts. Both Aline and Renoir's "true" forms had their faces missing and their bodies crumbling because losing your sense of who you are (represented by losing your face) is the danger of being so invested in a canvas, which is what Renoir described Aline saving from, and what is very obviously happening to Aline in Verso's canvas. While what we see on Alicia is definitely the painter face, I think it's representative of your identity merging with the canvas, and as she continues, she'll end up like Aline.

>>717841153
>but that doesn't mean she could never change her mind.
Correct, the fact that she'll be focusing her mind on keeping the painted world running exactly the way she likes (ranging from making Verso play the fucking piano to puppeting every Lumierening, depending on how you interpret her ending) is why she'll never change her mind and lose herself to the canvas just like her more skilled and less guilty mother did.

I am sorry, anon, I could have saved you... I could have found you a girlfriend and cured your depression, I could have saved all those starving african children too but.... Verso wanted to die because he was tired....

>>717797831

It's also one of the most meta aspects of the story.

The "good ending" does exist, it's even a specified third ending. It has a name, a song, it's part of the trinity of "Life to" songs all obviously referencing the endings.

It literally, canonically exists but a character in the story makes a decision that means the player will never get the chance to achieve it. You MUST pick one of two bad outcomes, that's just fucking life.

>>717841564
She doesn't make Verso play the piano or puppet anyone, that's headcannon from people who just hate Alicia.

>>717841204
>>717841564
Only Clea is skilled enough to paint over other people's creations. If Verso is still the same, i.e. Aline's creation, Maelle can't "control" him (maybe she can emotionally, but not literally). If he's a "new" Verso, i.e. Alicia's creation, his hesitation makes little sense.

>>717841632
>she doesn't make Verso play the piano
Go ahead and tell me what she's using her painted power on in that moment.

TIME FOR A SWIM SWIM

>>717794659 (OP)
>*suffers in style*

>>717841776
Nothing, she's just sitting there waiting for him to play.

>>717841760
>If Verso is still the same,
He's not, though. At the very least she changed his appearance. More likely, she painted over/away his immortality. There's no question that she gained the capacity to change him, the only question is to what extent.

>>717841894
So her mind is actively degrading without her even needing to use her powers? I'm even more right than I thought.

>>717841881
She's based for ignoring Verso and disowning him, she was a good person.

Where did Verso's scar go?

>>717841564
>>717841776
At no point have we seen Painters being able to force the painted people to do something.

>>717833380
The dad did nothing wrong

>>717841974
>So her mind is actively degrading without her even needing to use her powers?
Yes. This was the entire point of everything Renoir said.

>>717841217
>If it were his primary one, he would've just let Renoir kill him at the beginning of act III.
This is a good point and something I hadn't considered. He may have also tried betraying the party somewhere along the greatest expedition.
I was working off the multiple times that he has expressed regrets and inability to reconcile his existence. I still think he's overall a selfish fuck, but perhaps that last act truly was mainly motivated by a sense of selfless sacrifice for his sister.

Renoir JANNY picks up Maelle's SHIT

>>717841974
Her mind is fine, you're just seeing the world from Versos pov at the end of her ending, when everything turns black and white and he hallucinates her face being weird.

If she was acting as some sort of evil dictator god forcing Verso to do her bidding then Sciel, Gustave, Lune etc. would not be her friends anymore, they'd be fighting her.

>>717841760
Rest of the debate withstanding, we see Verso gommage before Alicia's epilogue. I believe she painted a new Verso based on Aline's Verso

>>717841204
It's because it's not healthy to be in the painting that long when you are an outsider to the painting. She is losing her mind.

>>717841985
Simon and Painted Clea.
Both of them are depressing as fuck.

>>717841985
Simon, too. Play the game.

>>717842138
Why didn't she just repaint him to be more happy?

>>717842121
>he hallucinates
Holy headcanon.

>>717842180
>>717842206
They were repainted.

>>717842206
no u

>>717841217
>I fully believe most people would, to save an immediate family member, press a button they were told kills multiple strangers. Obviously Renoir's actions are MUCH more extreme than that, but if both sides weren't flawed and either solution was obvious, it wouldn't be interesting.
"if your son is addicted to anime, you as dad need to nuke japan to save him."
Ya it sounds very silly if converted to RL

>>717842095
>This is a good point and something I hadn't considered.
Always refreshing to hear, I've said it alot myself in these threads. There's no denying that dread and fatigue have motivated Verso with a desire to end his own existence, but it's a newer motivation compared to his original one to protect his family, which is definitely still there.

>>717842262
She wanted him as he was, just without the immortality because she naively assumed that's why he was unhappy

>>717842095
isn't it because he still needs to tell real fractured verso to stop painting in the end ?

>>717842302
Verso may have been too.

>>717840071
And? Maelle, like most people, would rather choose a shorter life of happiness with friends than a long one in lonely, voiceless, half-blind and scarred misery.

>>717842138
We saw Lune and Sciel gommage, too, but most people seem to consider them the same people when Alicia reforms them.

>>717842356
>"if your son is addicted to anime, you as dad need to nuke japan to save him."
based

>>717842329
Alicia is retarded. Try reading Simon's journal.

>>717842302
>they weren't forced to do anything, they were just repainted which resulted in them being forced to do things

>>717842356
If the anime was killing my son and I had the means to destroy all anime, I'd probably consider it.

Reacher owes me sex

>>717842457
I think that's just the only way he can destroy the Canvas without being a painter himself.
Any actual painter could just force ghost-Verso to stop painting.

>>717841204
The eyes are meant to show that Maelle is going to wither away and die from staying in the canvas, as well as showing that Verso sees her as a cruel goddess towards him. That's because he's a bitch though, Maelle is making the right choice.

>>717842478
>happiness
That's one interpretation.

Why did Lune even want to sleep with Verso?

>>717842545
How does that refute her?

>>717842274
>>717841974
Autists like you who can't understand visual metaphors always shit up discussions about art with ANY amount of depth into pointless tedium.

>>717842761
Maelle is clearly happy in her ending. It's a happiness she has manufactured, but so is most happiness.

>>717842817
Verso is charming and good looking. Being evil isn't really a problem for most people if you look good doing it.

>>717842863
>ACCEPT MY HEADCANON

>>717841894
You are dumb as a rock, typical Maelle faggot

>>717842924
That's certainly one interpretation
>so is most happiness
lmao, jesus christ. Aliciafriends always reveal so much about themselves.

>>717842976
He promised to play for her. There's absolutely nothing in the game that points towards her mind controlling people against their will, Lune and Sciel would fucking bodyslam her if she tried doing shit like that. Not that she ever would since she's a good person. Verso is the piece of shit.

>>717842817
She's a music girl at heart. Those bitches are always secretly freaky.

>>717842852
Aline could repaint her for one thing. Also note, that this is not about "painting over" but repainting. Different things. I mentioned Simon's journal because it talks about Renoir's growing influence over his mind.

>>717843075
>There's absolutely nothing in the game that points towards her mind controlling people against their will, Lune and Sciel would fucking bodyslam her if she tried doing shit like that
Dude, she created them from scratch, you think they have any memory of what an egostistic scumbag Alicia is? Lmao

>>717843161
No I didn't, he's a terrible person.

>>717843250
She resurrects them she is not creating them. She can't create people like Aline does.

>>717831590
theres still somehope for some streamers
iiirc moistcritikal at some point started holding back intentionally
and sodapoppin made an "OST build" where maelle was tanking in egide instead of nuking everything

>>717843250
I believe that Sciel and Lune are the only two that are not from scratch, as she manages to nab their chroma.
Sadly, Gustave is probably not OG Gustave.

>>717843075
She can control the thoughts of every creatiin of hers, of courde they don't remember, you fucking retard, the painted world was doomed from the beginning, what matters if the canvas is desteoyef now or in 10 years? let verso's soul rest in peace

>>717843350
Nice head cannon

>>717843410
Would you rather die now or in 10 years?

>>717843489
That one always bothered me because the AI messed up her face skin texture

>>717843160
True, it shows that Renoir at least tried painting over Simon. But why have that line from Alicia in the script then?
We do know Simon was already mindbroken by real Clea so for all we know Renoir could've defeated him normally and then his already broken mind did the rest

>>717843808
Characters can be, and in this game are frequently, wrong. It is undeniable that Alicia in some way alters Verso. She has control of all the chroma and is more motivated by Verso than anything else.

i wish i had a cute sister like her who could make fun of me for marrying lune

>>717844103
>Verso, your hapa children will look nothing like you - your daughters will be whores and your sons will perform mass shootings on the other apprentices! When life throws you an asian women, your only choice is to PARRY IT!

>>717843808
>But why have that line from Alicia in the script then?
I actually checked the script and the line goes on to talk about painting over other's creations. I guess they could have intended for that to be the case, but it rings a bit hollow considering Aline was skilled enough to subconsciously paint over an actual paintress, which seems like a much bigger deal. You could also dig a little bit deeper and consider that we've already seen how to get rid of a paint-over via Gommage and Alicia did kill pVerso's other sister, so...

>>717843808
>for all we know Renoir could've defeated him normally
(x) Doubt
I doubt Alicia or Renoir could defeat Simon without resorting to Painter cheats