>>536898002
>Kris 100% would have killed Susie and Ralsei if they got in his way before that point
lol
>The Roaring ends the world, Anon. Knight directly summoned the Titan
We know that Ralsei's version of the prophecy is not accurate and the game has already said outright the obvious fact that if The Roaring was The Knight's goal they would have done it already. It's not that simple.
The Knight summoning a Titan was not an attempt to destroy the world, try thinking about it at all. Even if that's what they wanted to do it would be pointless, The Prophecy says that the Heroes save the world(s) in the end, whatever the cost may be.
Have you thought about why The Knight's Black Knife is an anti-Titan weapon? Even a shard of it is enough for Kris to slay the Titan Spawn and cut open the TItan with ease

>>717466289
Kris Knight was not even close to a certainty, there was plenty of reasons to doubt it and consider alternatives, which is why people spent four years considering alternatives.
With what we know now there is essentially no reason to believe The Knight is anyone but December Holiday.

>>717466578
>Kris Knight was basically correct
Except it wasn't. lol

>>531404825
>Asgore could maybe be an option
Do you really think Asgore would put a sword to Kris's neck for any reason?
I could name a dozen other reasons why it's absolutely not Asgore, this hypothesis is based entirely around "Asgore is vaguely involved in the conspiracy," "I want Asgore to be more important (even though he's clearly being set up as the Chapter 5 boss)" and "The Knight can't be a Holiday because ???" contrarianism. It totally falls apart if you think about it at all.
>It's not out of the question that Papyrus could just have them from Christmas and is still wearing them
If you think about the fact that you are arguing "Toby Fox made the silly goofy skeleton man the very scary serious main antagonist of his next game and he just has antlers because he's wearing a silly reindeer costume like the silly gag from Undertale" you would realize it is in fact out of the question. Papyrus Knight is an inherently unserious "theory."

>>531405024
No, The Knight can (more or less) freely operate in the Light World, and resurrection-Darkners like Gerson will only manifest under very specific conditions according to Ralsei.
If you took Gerson's dust to any other Dark World, even Castle Town, he wouldn't be revived.

>>715468058
>he was doing it against his will
Well, no

>>715372375
>there's just no thematic or narrative payoff to Dess being the Knight
If you genuinely believe this you're just an idiot. Sorry.

>>715324967
Why did Kris's shadow do this?
Why would the main antagonist be some nebulous evil force, instead of an actual character with history and motivation and connections to other characters that can create meaningful moments?

>>714385692
Exactly. >>714380198

>>714320592
I will continue to support my interpretation of the events until someone constructs a more convincing alternative
It hasn't happened yet

>>713851179
If the plan was taking them both, why does The Knight just immediately fuck off with Undyne as soon as she shows up? The Fuck Squad wasn't in any condition to actually stop her from taking Toriel.
Why did The Knight wait at all? That little plastic ball wasn't actually keeping Toriel safe or hidden. What was stopping The Knight from taking Toriel immediately?
What was the point of the whole plan to have Tenna keep The Fun Gang busy? Kris and The Knight were waiting for Undyne to show up, right? If the plan at that point was for The Knight to take both of them, why do they immediately just grab Undyne and fly to the exit after making a big show about taking Toriel with their Gaster hands?

Kris is working with The Knight, and they're both working for Carol. Carol wants the other people who know the codes to the Shelter gone so nobody (the SOUL) can interfere with what's happening down there.
Kris obviously doesn't want to put their mom in danger, and The Knight, who is/was December Holiday, clearly has some special connection to Kris and has sympathy for them, so they're willing to offer up Undyne as a hopefully acceptable substitute to Carol to keep Toriel out of harm's way. Kris is a good kid and doesn't really want anyone to be put in danger unnecessarily, so even then they tried to warn Undyne ahead of time, but ultimately they're willing to bend the knee and accept that there's nothing they can do but go along with the plan.

>>528646349
>by pure coincidence always held back on Kris
No clue, you tell me.

>>528451368
>Kris...
>... don't forget, Kris...
>... you promised.

>There's a light inside your soul
>That’s still shining in the cold
>With the truth
>The promise in our hearts
>Don't forget
>I'm with you in the dark

>COME FOLLOW ME INTO THE DARK
>WITH YOUR HEART AS THE ARK
>WHICH SHALL SHINE YOU THE WAY
>BECAUSE I'M WITH YOU IN THE DARK
>WITH YOUR HEART AS MY MARK
>WHICH SHALL GUIDE YOU THE WAY

Hmm all of this probably has nothing to do with each other and means nothing

>>528367862
Looks pretty large to me

>>528088269
Kris genuinely cares about Susie and Ralsei even though they're double-crossing them and seeing them beat up made Kris upset
Or Kris is getting into the fight and wants to prove themself to The Knight 1 on 1
Or the game just doesn't want you to be handicapped if Kris is the only one left standing and you have to rely on their DPS to finish the fight, which is pretty likely when most people will probably put the Shadow Mantle on Kris and Kris is the only one who doesn't get hit to -999

>>712701110
Dess and Carol have big fucking swords made of the Black Glass that rips through Titans like butter. They don't want to destroy the world, they want to kill the Titans. And they want Kris and Noelle to help them do it.

>>712650425
She's sympathetic to Kris but she believes it has to be done
Putting the sword to Kris's neck and making them kneel can be read as "it's over kid, time's up, stand down"

And like >>712650506 says, if Carol knows about the SOUL she probably does too. Kris doesn't want us to know they're working together, that's why you have those moments at the end of Chapter 4 where they stay just out of our sight.

>>712464313
>Slash comes from Kris's direction, behind the party
>Ralsei immediately turns toward Kris and keeps looking in Kris's direction until he's knocked out
>Ralsei asking "H... how could you..." with a shocked expression makes the most sense if he's addressing Kris
>We conspicuously see no reaction at all from Kris during this entire sequence
>The Knight reappears and literally "knights" Kris
>This whole scene is your reward for defeating a superboss you're supposed to lose to even if you prepared for it and can be expected to have more significance than just "you lose anyway lol"
If Kris didn't stab them in the back himself the most generous interpretation is still "Kris stood by while The Knight backstabbed his friends, and even signaled them to do it"
And the whole purpose of Chapter 3's Dark World was luring Undyne in to be captured by The Knight with Toriel as bait, and now Undyne is going to be "sacrificed"
Kris isn't "evil" but they're in deep shit